Rick Sowan on How to Build a Great Business EP 42


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EP42: Transcription

Radio Host: I’ve got Jeff Whittle with Whittle & Partners is on the show will be joining us with our friends from BKM Sowan Horan and we’ll be talking about managing your company, setting expectations, making changes you need to happen. You need people to tell you your baby is ugly! You gotta have people in your life that will tell you your baby is ugly and this is what you need to do. This guy does it. Give us a few minutes we’ll come right back. Alright we are back 8:18 on this Wednesday morning thanks for joining us I am Brian Glenn this is DFW Business Today and I wanna start off this segment with our good friend Neal McCoy as we kick off the Pledge of Allegiance on this Wednesday morning.(Neal McCoy recites Pledge of Allegiance)
Radio Host: Amen on that. Thank you for doing that. Alright let’s bring in Rick Sowan.
Rick Sowan: Good morning.
Radio Host: Our good friend. Hey! Good morning. I know traffic I was telling people…
Rick Sowan: I apologize.
Radio Host: No. Don’t apologize.We live in Dallas. That’s the reality of living in this great city but we do have a lot of traffic.
Rick Sowan: It took me a little longer to get here this morning than normal.
Radio Host: It’s okay. You brought Jeff Whittle from Whittle?
Rick Sowan: I did. Jeff is a good friend of mine and also my business coach and I thought that from a business owner standpoint, I think Jeff has some . . . I am a client of Jeff so I have some personal experience with dealing with him. What he does and what he brings to my business and so I think he can take the same resources and
devote them to other small businesses that require the same type of services.
Radio Host: There you go. Welcome Jeff. We were talking a little bit in the break waiting for you … and a little bit about what he does for you he does for a living and I think any business needs to have somebody like Jeff around. Because sometimes you can’t see everything. You are so focused on …
Rick Sowan: Well speaking from experience we get wrapped up working in our business and sometimes we have to spend as much time working on our business and that’s what Jeff kind of holds my feet to the fire on. And if you don’t have anybody else stealing that then you’ll lapse back into your old habits. And so Jeff has been helping me
for over four years and so I recommend him wherever I can.
Radio Host: Tell us about yourself Jeff.
Jeff Whittle: I’m just a regular guy like I told you.
Radio Host: You are not a regular guy come on! You are Jeff Whittle.
Jeff Whittle: I’m really fortunate. I get to work with great people who have great businesses and sort of look under the hood. You know work with people that are interested in making their businesses and their people better and open and willing to … my job is very rarely do I know the answer. My job is I get to ask the really hard questions and then help be around as we answer them. And so I spend a lot of time resisting the label ‘coach’. It’s sort of an overused euphemism for unemployed CEOs and so I didn’t like that term for a while. But now I really do. I mean I’ve come to embrace it. You know coach is somebody that helps you be better than you could be without them.
Radio Host: I agree. And I think that sometimes when you run a business and sometimes you don’t see everything. You know things might be going on that you are missing and having that ability to pick up on that is key.
Rick Sowan: It’s important. And I think the greatest thing that I learned from Jeff was having a vision for yourself before you can expect your business to fall in line. And that was so important to me. Trying to establish what your vision is for your company and then keeping that as your destination and that is so important as a business owner and as a manager of people and these resources that I have been keeping that is so very important.
Jeff Whittle: It’s so easy to jump into planning from a standpoint of how much money are we gonna make, how big is my business gonna be? How many people and when Rick and I first started we did what we do with everybody and that is we work through a personal vision. What we really wanna know is what success looks like for Rick. And then let’s build that business that gives it to him. But we have to know what Rick is trying to achieve.
Radio Host: Rick Sowan from BKM Sowan Horan and Jeff Whittle from Whittle & Partners on the show talking about I guess in a way managing expectations you know for the most part you know you got expectations with yourself and your employees and kind of the vision you wanna go to. Now so when things go wrong, and Jeff when you recognize Jeff we’ve got some problems it could be in the communication, it could be just in operational, how do you approach that business owner without completely pissing him off? Because a lot of people are very … with what they do.
Jeff Whittle: Yeah. Not very well sometimes as he answers to that. And Rick can weigh in on this because he’s been on the other side of this. That’s part of what they pay me for Brian.
Radio Host: So they get upset because you corrected them and then you know. . .
Rick Sowan: It’s not correcting. It’s holding somebody again to the course of action that you have for yourself and keeping you on that track through the tough times and the bad times.
Jeff Whittle: Absolutely. Rick’s on the board of directors with we call it the ‘alternative board’ and it’s people who are running businesses that want that objective input so these business owners get together once a month and they struggle with each other’s challenges and they help each other. And Rick’s on the board with one of our good friends Stan Smith with Smith Allen Insurance here in Dallas. And what’s stuns us is I used to think accountability was a bad thing. It was about somebody making me do something. But when we start with personal vision when we start with exactly what you wanna achieve then all of a sudden you are being held responsible for doing what you wanna do for getting what you want and so my job gets a lot easier when all I have to do is say now Rick remember we are trying to get you to this place is this really getting you there?
Rick Sowan: Right. And keep asking the question and keep having to answer it. And that’s the important thing because you can stop. You know if you can’t answer it logically enough times then you are not really on the right track yet and that’s another, you know, having people constantly ask you that question over and over again keeps you refocused on until you know you’ve got the right answer.
Jeff Whittle: Right. You know you asked about making people mad Brian. Not everybody is a target client for what I do. I can’t drag people kicking and screaming to look at their business objectively and to ask the hard questions and to challenge themselves to do different things. I can’t make them do that. They have to wanna do that. And so
very rarely do I find that by pushing somebody do they push back and get angry? They appreciate that that’s part of what they pay me for and sometimes they don’t have anybody else in their business that can do that. Because the people I work with are running their business.They are the CEOs, they are the managing partners and people treat them differently. It’s just hard to get objective feedback when you are in that role.
Radio Host: Rick Sowan from BKM Sowan Horan, you’ve been pretty busy man. . .
Rick Sowan: I’ve been pretty busy but I like it. Everything is going well. Appreciate it.
Radio Host: Uhh, a lot travel?
Rick Sowan: Just to Austin. Trying to get the Austin office off the ground. Got some good people down there now so trying to wrap up the business. Got some good opportunities down there. So I’ll be travelling back and forth to Austin.
Radio Host: Not a bad place.
Rick Sowan: Yeah. Not a bad place.
Radio Host: Our last caller for the Dallas MoneyShow was actually in Austin. So I told him it’s kinda weird … don’t let the weird change him.
Jeff Whittle: Rick Sowan is a rock star.
Radio Host: I know he is. What continent is he in today? He is everywhere.
Rick Sowan: He is a Nashville.
Radio Host: Oh it’s a …
Rick Sowan: Yeah it’s a Nashville.
Radio Host: Yeah. Very cool stuff. Alright we’ll take a break. When we come back we’ll talk more with Rick Sowan and Jeff Whittle from Whittle & Partners plus we have another money show guest on the line. Talk to him for a few minutes as well. Hey we always like to talk to these money guys. Alright it’s 8:26, stick around you are listening to 620AM KEXB your experts in business we’ll see you in a few.
Radio Host: Alright we are back 8:31 hanging out this morning with Jeff Whittle, Whittle & Partners and Rick Sowan, my good buddy Rick Sowan who’s dressing kind of casual today.
Rick Sowan: Very casual today.
Radio Host: No coat?
Rick Sowan: No. I’m gonna have an easy day today.
Radio Host: Yeah. You deserve one.
Rick Sowan: I do.
Radio Host: Uhh, get ready for the MoneyShow Dallas kicks off today. Downtown at the Hyatt Regency, we just continue to get rock star people from the show and joining us now on line is Jeffrey Saut he serves as Raymond James’s chief investment strategists and managing director at the firm’s equity research department. Good morning Jeffrey?
Jeffrey: Good morning.
Radio Host: Glad to have you!
Jeffrey: My pleasure!
Radio Host: Yeah. Are you in Dallas yet? Or you are like the other ones you are hanging out until the last second?
Jeffrey: No, no. I flew in on Friday. My wife and I we went to an event to Friday night and had dinner with portfolio managers on Saturday. Sunday night I was with my friend John Mauldin in his condo here in Dallas and spoke at a couple of events on Monday and went to Shadrows dinner for the great investors, great ideas conference which was yesterday. Michael Price was there, Mario Gabelli, David Einhorn, a bunch of big name Wall Street people and the conference was excellent and obviously I’m speaking at the Moneyshow Conference tomorrow.
Radio Host: Nice. Okay here in town, your topic is ‘Running with the Bulls’. Let’s talk about that.
Jeffrey: Well you know one of the things my dad was a portfolio manager was Dow theory. And we think on March 2nd, I was in CNBC in the bottoming process that started in October of 2008 is complete this week. And we’ve been running with the bulls ever since. Typically secular bull markets last 15 yrs and we are about 8 years into this
one so if it passes prelude we’ve got another 6 or 7 years. Will there be pullbacks? You bet yeah. I think we got a lot higher to go and longer to go than most people think.
Radio Host: Now Jeffrey I’ll ask you a question you’ve done several money shows around the country what are some of the things people take away from all of this or maybe some of the feedback that you’ve gotten?
Jeffrey: I think people are still far too berish. They think the only reason stocks are up is because the central banks have flooded the system with cash and there’s no doubt that’s helped. But the equity market don’t care about the absolutes of good or bad. All the equity markets care about is are things getting better or are things are things getting worse? And things are getting better if you look at this you know I have been suggesting that the markets are transitioning from an interest rate bull market to an earnings-driven bull market. And with 65 of the SMP companies reporting today is not a big sample but 70% on sales and 81% on earnings. We think the profits recession ended with the second quarter of 2016.
Radio Host: Of course you’ll be in town talking about this and many more topics as 50 plus of these expert speakers are in town. How long have you been with the MoneyShow?
Jeffrey: Oh I’ve only started doing it in the past year but I’ve been in the business 46 years and I’ve been looking at markets for 54 years with my dad.
Radio Host: Yeah. There you go. Kind of growing up in the business is pretty cool.
Jeffrey: I’ve heard about it ever since I was probably 7 or 8 years old.
Radio Host: There you go. What’s the best way for people to get a hold of you if they wanna find more information about what you do and of course we got the dallasmoneyshow.com is a great website to go to. But do you have anything else you wanna throw out there?
Jeffrey: Yeah, if you go to the Raymond James website and drill down into it my daily comments are up there under individual investors.
Radio Host: There you go. I appreciate your time this morning. Jeffrey Saut he serves as a chief investment strategist over at Raymond James, thank you so much for joining us and enjoy your time here in Dallas. Go get some barbecue by the way.
Jeffrey: I love it! Thanks.
Radio Host: Haha. Thank you. Good stuff there. Of course the Dallas MoneyShow kicks off today, goes through the 21st at the Dallas Hyatt Regency here in Downtown. And you were very familiar Rick with those names.
Rick Sowan: Well those are heavy weights in the money investment world and you know my mother always told me follow the Dow. Just follow the Dow. Pretty simple.
Radio Host: We’ve had several guys from the Dallas MoneyShow and a lot of them say obviously the presidential elections I guess a little bit to do with what directions you can take but he just said really 8 years into a 14 year average of a bull run.
Rick Sowan: I hope he is right. You know but I think just based on from a corporate earnings perspective, I think he is right. I think companies are continuing to find ways to improve earnings you know that you are still seeing some layoffs and some of the big companies. You know they are trying to maintain the direction that they have
established so you know I guess that makes sense.
Radio Host: Yeah.
Jeff Whittle: It sounds like you think a lot of those earnings are a function of cost contraction.
Rick Sowan: I think it’s cost contraction. But also I think the way you measure profits is being altered as well.That’s the one thing that always causes me to pause. Because when you see people alter the measure earnings to continue to show improvement in earnings, then that’s sometimes hollow.
Jeff Whittle: Help us understand how that happened.
Rick Sowan: You know you look at alternatives to gap earnings so you’ll start to look at EBITDAR if other types of measurements are not Gap and so people make adjustments to those types of measurements that sometimes don’t make sense but they make the numbers look better.
Jeff Whittle: So people who were historically reporting using GAP compliance principle …
Rick Sowan: Start to look at alternative measures that are non-Gap and you know the SCC has been focused on it. They’ve tried to turn the market’s attention to that. The fact that the companies are using alternative measures and so what they are also doing is trying to lay out some ground work for how you best report that information and
all the caveats that come with it. Because there are the way that you might calculate EBITDA would be different with the way I calculate EBITDA and even though they are the same term they are not calculated in a manner that’s consistent and so I think that’s what the SCC is concerned about and recently issued some guidance to public companies and their corporate officers about making sure that there’s clarity to an investor about how you measure EBITDA different from the way I measure it. And so when you start to see that, that is usually to me. . . it starts indicate the end of a bull run because as then people are stretching to get to where they need to be and so I think investors should be cautious and should be careful but always follow the Dow. All the money that they put into circulation gotta go somewhere so the Dow will always go up. It’s just about of a matter of when the function of money. So simple stuff.
Radio Host: Yeah. Good stuff. So how long has your relationship been with Jeff?
Rick Sowan: I’ve been working with Jeff for four years. And you know I’m a little different than Jeff’s typical clients in that I’ve got partners that I’m accountable to as a managing partner and you know Jeff will tend to deal with single owners of businesses that have people responsible to them for operations and finances and marketing and business developments and all the other attributes most businesses have. And so I have partners but what I use that the alternative board to do in Jeff’s assistance is I try to flash out my ideas before I unleash those from my partners and so I’d rather get a difficult reaction from my alternative board before I get a difficult reaction from my partners.
Jeff Whittle: But you do a great job of using the group for that kind of focus group.
Rick Sowan: And you know I’m not afraid of the tough . . . somebody telling me I don’t have all the facts or I’m not thinking about something. And to me that’s the hardest thing as a owner of a business, as a manager of a business you got so many blind spots that you obviously can’t see and what the alternative board helps me with is a client of Jeff is helping me make sure I’ve asked an answer to all the questions so I can make sure I minimize those blind spots. You know if you are an owner of a business who are you gonna have those conversations with? Who is it that you have? I mean the days of having confidants and banking and lawyers and things of that nature to me are kind of a bygone era. Because people change I mean the law firms change over every year,you can’t even have the same lawyer, the banks change over every year.You know the people that used to be your confidants can’t be your confidants anymore.
Radio Host: Absolutely.
Rick Sowan: Because they are never there. They are changing and disappearing or they got other places they gotta devote their time. And so having an outside party like Ab and Jeff has been instrumental in helping me address really I’ve got a growing business and I’ve got challenges everyday that I have to address and it’s just been invaluable and I think if you are a small business owner or even a large business owner, you can drive a lot of benefit from having somebody that you can develop a close confidant relationship with.
Radio Host: It’s good stuff there. I love the way you phrase that. Now how deep do you dig in because you spend you know six hours a day with them, once a week, you know how often do you…
Jeff Whittle: The board meets once a month for 4 hours and that’s generally depending on attendance and travel 6 to 8 people, non competitive businesses so nobody has to worry about sharing any trade secrets. And the board members are challenged to come to each board meeting with an issue that they are struggling with or an opportunity that they are thinking about or a decision that they have to make and they put that on the table and this group of objective business owners who know what it’s like to be alone at the top who kind of get that challenge just put that issue on the table and everybody weighs in on it and they ask the hard questions and they talk about what they would do and they give advice and it’s an opportunity like Rick said for someone to stress test a challenge before you actually implement it in your business because just about everybody in that room is alone at the top. They are that person who’s gotta make the decision,they are sitting in the big chair and it’s easy to make a decision that you hear a lot about after the fact that you didn’t think about and so the benefit of talking about that in advance and getting some of that objective feedback, sometimes which can be very pointed and candid is
valuable, so we spend 4 hours in that meeting every month and then once a month, my clients Rick and I and other clients will spend in a one on one session and in that session we’ll do a deeper dive into a particular issue. There’s an accountability component around that. Rick always knows that’s when I’m gonna ask him did you do this?
Radio Host: Homework, assignments?
Rick Sowan: Homework assignment. And then the first thing he asks me is did you finish what you said you were gonna finish the last time we met?
Jeff Whittle: The reason for that is the probability of it happening is higher. If you know that I’m gonna walk in and look you in the eye and ask did you do that? You don’t wanna be that guy who says no I didn’t get that done.
Rick Sowan: That’s exactly right. Accountability is you know really and you know just my accountability to Jeff and the rest of the board also permeates all the way through the organization because if I’m being held accountable and I’m gonna make sure other people below me are being held accountable for the things that I need to have to
be able to do to pass judgement or implement change.
Whittle: And Rick’s a classic example of a perfect member. I mean you rarely walk in with your mind made up. You walk in with something that you are struggling with that you are concerned to have and you really and truly process what people give you and I’ve never seen you push back or argue. We sometimes have that. Sometimes someone will get defensive about a decision that they’ve made or something that they’d love to do. When you really and truly walk in with an open mind, and a challenge that makes a difference in your business and you have people who like you and care about you and want you to be successful and understand your personal mission and will challenge you to rationalize how that decision is aligned with that you are just gonna get to a better place.
Rick Sowan: Absolutely. And you know I think that the other part of this that’s so important is we’ve got, Jeff is pretty good about putting together a group of people that are pretty like minded in the way that they approach business and you know they all have their vision in mind and for their businesses and we you know having a cohesive board is so important in being able to feel like you are getting people that are really taking an interest in what you are doing that really have no vested interest otherwise.
Jeff Whittle: But you take very personally wanting these people to be successful.
Rick Sowan: Absolutely. That’s a good thing. I don’t know where you get that anymore and it’s just hard to find.
Radio Host: Maybe we can get him to sit in and manage expectations from my corner. . .
Rick Sowan: There you go.
Radio Host: Let’s do that after the break. Jeff Whittle from Whittle & Partners and Rick Sowan with BKM Sowan Horan. As always you can go to http://bkmsh.com/
Michael: I’m nervous now.
Radio Host: I’m extremely nervous.
Rick Sowan: Don’t be afraid of accountability.
Radio Host: I’m just looking the way at the wall I think that I’m being studied. By the way I saw a corporate guy walk by. Did you see that earlier?
Michael: No I didn’t.
Radio Host: We’ve got some corporate guy in the house. We’ve got some corporate guys listening to the show. Welcome to Dallas corporate guys! Welcome back to 620AM KEXB after the break we’ll see you in a few.
Radio Host: Breaking the Twenty One Pilots. I know it’s early, the break with Twenty One Pilots. You like that?
Michael: You made me download the whole album.
Radio Host: I’m sure your son likes Twenty One Pilots.
Rick Sowan: He does.
Radio Host: Very talented. Here’s two guys, two guys, drummer, piano player, ukulele, bass player, one guy plays everything and those two guys create so much energy and magic and in music … now they track a lot of stuff. They don’t track the vocals. Of course not. But talented man.
Rick Sowan: Very talented.
Michael: Creative. Creative.
Radio Host: We were talking about an event that you went to a couple of weekends ago. Let’s talk about you gotta something that’s well oiled machine. Very organized and very structured and I would imagine if Jeff got a hold of that event he probably …
Rick Sowan: He can make it better.
Radio Host: He can make it better. That’s what he does, he makes companies better.
Rick Sowan: He could make a better … you know it’s hard to imagine that, that event can get any better than it was but . . .
Jeff Whittle: Which event was that?
Rick Sowan: This was the Desert Trip out in Pump Springs to see some great music.
Radio Host: Organization, focus and I really think about this for a second. I think the reason why it was so successful is because they met the customer’s expectations. You know what I’m saying like you came there and then take the price a little high that’s okay. Because I think that sets well what that does is that it’s a strainer. It strains out pretty much all the people that would be remotely be troublemakers in a way.
Rick Sowan: I did not see one policeman anywhere.
Radio Host: I actually believe that. I really do.
Rick Sowan: But again we are dealing with a well well-heeled crowd. I mean it’s not a…
Radio Host: You are probably upset you guys are making stock trade…Get off e-trade. Watch the music over here.
Rick Sowan: Well it was quite an event and I would highly recommend anybody going again. I’m planning on if they have another event.
Radio Host: I’m gonna go live from there. Michael Clarke will be live from there.
Michael: From where?
Radio Host: They got that compressed microphone probably worked out I can just take my laptop go to Pump Springs.
Michael: Yeah we gotta test that …out.
Rick Sowan: There’s a lot of money out there. There’s a lot of business.
Radio Host: Yeah it’s a business show. We tracked the Dow which by the way I saw on breaking news on CNN the Dow is up 30 points. So we are following the money this morning. We are talking to Jeff Whittle with Whittle & Partners and BKM Sowan Horan, Rick Sowan joining us on the show. And I’m gonna say this, you’ve got a journal and what is that in front of you? It’s a notebook?
Jeff Whittle: It’s just something I keep some notes on. I try so hard to be technologically up to speed and the fact of the matter is I’m just a … and so I still carry around a little journal so that I don’t forget. It ends up in the computer.
Michael: But you got a Twitter account and I’ve already linked over to you from out Twitter?
Jeff Whittle: What do you think is just the most pithy and insightful stuff you’ve ever heard?
Michael: Hey it’s fine from what it is.
Radio Host: Let’s turn our attention Michael real quick . . .
Jeff Whittle: It’s not like the bottom dwellers.
Michael: It’s a business.
Radio Host: Yeah what do you expect?
Michael: It’s not like the bottom dwellers of Twitter with filth and everything. So it’s good for what it is.
Radio Host: It’s content. He’s tweeting out the content that’s relevant to…
Michael: Exactly. It’s what it’s supposed to be.
Radio Host: That’s what it’s supposed to be.
Jeff Whittle: So tell me do you guys really follow Twitter and listen to what people say?
Michael: Sometimes I’d do a hashtag and follow something like political stuff if somebody like a topic is trending like the debate or something I’ll hashtag the debate or just go to my favorite people that I like hearing from, I’ll see what they are tweeting about because they’ll tweet every 30 seconds during the debate or something.
Radio Host: Yeah. It’s a little much. I brought the conversation up to a sports reporter. I go I don’t need to know every possession in a basketball game. Because people who aren’t watching the game will follow me on Twitter and so I’m gonna say you know ‘don’t miss two layups in a row oh my God #Can’tHitaLayUp’. And then the next one is; so and so up for three’ and I’m like I don’t need play by play on Twitter.
Michael: That’s true. Because If you are gonna do play by play on Twitter, why aren’t you live streaming it through Twitter officially?
Radio Host: Yeah.
Jeff Whittle: But it’s an interesting marketing debate because the marketing people that I work with are real advocates of Twitter as a mechanism for getting people to your site. And you know I’m an old guy to me it’s just a bunch of people yelling at each other.
Radio Host: It’s cess pool of 180 characters.
Michael: It can be that but all you really have to do is tweak your list of people that you follow. And then you don’t have to see all the junk.
Jeff Whittle: I’m gonna start with zero and then we’ll go up from there.
Radio Host: I remember when I first got it I think I followed like . . .
Michael: Everybody?
Radio Host: No like… Kim Kardashian.
Rick Sowan: The only thing I follow is Goldman GSElevator the guy that writes about all the stuff that he sees at the … office. But you are finding that social media is a good vehicle for you.It’s a very good vehicle and you know I think it’s a transitional issue I mean anybody that started a business in the last 10 or 12 years is social media adept and so we have to be a social media …
Radio Host: What’s the best contact information for you Jeff if someone wants to get a hold of you?
Jeff Whittle: Email letter jwhittle@whittleandpartners.com.
Radio Host: There you go you can always go to http://bkmsh.com/ for more information on BKM Sowan Horan what they do. Always taking clients right?
Rick Sowan: Always taking clients that’s correct.
Radio Host: I tell you, you guys are first class and I’m not just saying it because you are in here but you guys are always partnering up with good people in the community and do a lot of good things and you help others around you. While you guys are both music guys, well we have a couple minutes left. The rock and roll hall of fame
announced the nominees. Okay this is a hot topic here. This is fighting …
Michael: It’s no longer the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.
Radio Host: It’s no longer the rock and roll hall of fame. What’s your thought well you don’t have to show me your thoughts but I’ll show you mine. Journey should be in there? Right?
Michael: Absolutely. I think so.
Radio Host: Absolutely right? Prodigee? I mean they changed, I mean social media depth, changed music it was …
Rick Sowan: Questionable whether it was for the best.
Radio Host: Yeah. It’s true but it was like hard metal. It was like Jay Whittle and it went to. But here’s something that’s really interesting. Tupac Shakur is nominated in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. I’m not sure…
Michael: He’s influenced rock artists but I don’t think that he’s rock.
Radio Host: But that’s the thing.
Rick Sowan: He hasn’t done anything.
Michael: He’s been dead.
Radio Host: Well he’s been dead but you wouldn’t see Journey get inducted into the hip hop hall of fame.
Michael: Never.
Radio Host: So why do we have hip hop and rap artists even though they may have slightly influenced . . .well lemme just stop here. There’s no band today on the rock side that’s inspired by Tupac.
Michael: Well, there is.
Radio Host: Maybe the rhythm. But nobody is saying I listened to Tupac therefore I picked up a guitar and started playing.
Michael: Probably not.
Rick Sowan: Highly unlikely.
Radio Host: Anyway that’s one of the things that trends on Twitter. The debate who belongs in who belongs out. Anyway I thought out there. Thank you so much for coming. Sorry the traffic was crappy this morning but that’s probably typical for a Wednesday.
Rick Sowan: I don’t know. Hopefully it won’t happen again.
Jeff Whittle: Great to see you guys.
Radio Host: Alright we’ll see you guys back here tomorrow bright and early. You guys have a great day. We’ll see you.

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